GOREAN MOTTO:
YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS
BOTH, IC AND OOC
Players of Gor, are tired of all the crap.
Please send OOC requests / posts / notices to
Jewel Bane Ravyn
Have fun all:
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Subject: For the OOC section for the Next Chronicle Issue
Date: 5/8/2008 1:54:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Rachelle Laford
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
If any one has seen or heard from the mun of Sith Gadyeur or Perrin Degare can you please email Rachelle Laford. It has been a mun month now since a very odd im occurred under the SN of Perrin as if someone other than that mun was using that SN. The person was asking if I knew about this thing or that about Perrin/Sith mun and when I would give limited answers stating I wouldnt respond until I knew whom I was speaking to the name signed off. The very next day both names were taken down as not a known member even though neither profile was deleted. Thanks in advance to any who can give any assistance.
Rachelle and her mun
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Regarding the Ship Registries: A Rough Draft for the Beginning
After in depth discussions between the two registries:
5/1/08
Over the past year, there have been two ship registries for players to choose from when registering ships. Much has been said about both registries, both good and bad... but time, patience and civilized conversation has lead to a great step forward for the players of Gor.
The SRoG and AoG will begin working in tandem with one another.
What this means for the Builders:
In order to maintain the integrity of the registration process and fair gaming, each builder must choose to build for either the AoG or the SRoG. They cannot build for both registries, only because it would be too tedious for the Scribes to figure out who is turning ships in where, what week, and who was trying to turn in ships to both registries.
What this means for Individual Ship Owners:
Owners will have the option of owning ships on the SRoG, the AoG or on both registries. Each ship will be treated as a separate entity. While you may own ship A on the SRoG and ship B on the AoG, ship A may not be listed on both registries, nor may ship B.
What this means for City Fleets:
This is the touchiest topic of all it would seem. It is against the policies set forth in the SRoG to transfer City Fleets because they are owned by the City and not any individual. For the City Fleets to be listed on both registries under different numbers effectively doubles the fleet unintentionally. The best compromise that we have managed to eke out, is that City Fleets will be listed on both the AoG and the SRoG. The Registration identifying number will be based on where the ship was initially registered, no matter on which registry it appears. There is no risk of losing ships, in fact, as the Scribes have agreed to keep each other notified on City Fleet ship changes and additions, it will make holding actual wars and battles even easier.
In concurrence by the SRoG and the AoG
for the betterment of role play on Gor
Penned by Meira Shayna and assisted by Jewel Bane Ravyn
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Subject: TMoG Resource - Re: reply to Darius
Date: 5/3/2008 12:51:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: TMoG Resource
To: Jewel Bane Rayn
Alright all I know this is old news and if any is offended by this please forgive me. However I have to say this..... Please TMoG Resource is only a web site for resource and to provide In Character circulations. I ask you all for future OOC debates, please do not send the E-mails to this SN. Not unless you are asking me to create a page on the web site to post each and every response if this is the case then alright I will gladly do it. However I do not want TMoG to be used for bashing any Character in IC or OOC. TMoG remains natural to all characters and muns. Thank you for your understanding.
TMoG
Maintainer and Record Keeper
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Subject: Notice... AIM Profile Hacker
Date: 4/22/2008 10:06:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Rika Aldarak
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Jewel,
Please pass this on to anyone you think might be interested.
~~~~~~~~~~
Today when I signed on and attempted to update my profile I found that someone had hacked into it. They cleared off my profile and added a picture icon, below it stating "Click on icon above to view members pictures." When you click on the icon it will take you to the member sign on page. If you sign on it will throw you into a room. The one I entered was called majek.
I've reported this to AOL so we'll see if I get any response.
Lesson learned I guess. Save all your profile work in a separate file.
Rika mun
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Subject: Unrecognized SNs
Date: 4/22/2008 1:04:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Kelrak Dantura
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
KeIlista Dantura
I have NEVER allowed anyone to pc Kels kids....so i want it known please that Kallista Dantura....though she claims she is...she has NO AFFILIATION with Kelrak Dantura or any of the established Danturas from years passed..
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Subject: Fwd: The loss of a great mun
Date: 4/15/2008 5:07:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Jewel Bane Ravyn
We have received news that we knew was coming, but that does not make it any easier. The mun of Maia Storm ST, who also played Psibai, passed away on 4/9/08.
All that knew her will mourn her loss. She had an incredible spirit and attitude, and she will be greatly missed. For those that did not know, she was diagnosed with melanoma in 2006 and has fought it valiantly ever since, right up until the end. Her spark and personality were evident in her characters, which were fresh, unique, and very loveable, in spite of the fact that at least Maia would have given one of those deadly looks for calling her loveable.
This is a great blow, but she herself told me she had no regrets. She lived life to the fullest, and we will miss her terribly.
Tributes to Maia, Sigh, and the Mun
Farewell Dear Friend |
For more information contact: AuroraST x and/or RaineStormST
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Subject: Death of a Pledge
Date: 4/14/2008 6:10:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: PadisharV
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Due to OOC vindictiveness, crossing, rumor mongering and several threats of deleting the character due to OOC information (concerning training, of all things), as well as IC unworthiness and actions (or lack there of since the player was all too often on other names instead of working on training), the character Braer N Sulato has been killed by the Black Caste.
The player, of course, does not accept this, even though they have understood and agreed to the rules. They knew what they were getting into, yet still chose to break them.
Feel free to play with said character as you wish, though to the RBC the character is dead and so no hunts placed upon the character will be honored.
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IC::
By Order of the Council of Captains
Let it be known that the Council of Captains of Port Kar,
The Sovereign Power,
has by majority vote banished
RogueStormPK
from the city of Port Kar, and through the power of the Council of Captains,
he will be denied salt, fire, and water on
5th day of Fourth Hand of the Month of En'Kara
(1) in the year 10,158 CA
OOC:
The CoC and has placed a full city wide OOC/IC ignore
on ALL of this mun's known and unknown characters from the city of Port Kar.
All of the characters of this mun are hereby,
banned from role play pertaining to Port Kar
to include but not limited to:
BomanofTreve, RogueStormPK, AkinaKalran, AdareBloodmoon,
Elise Drethren, Jenna Drethren, Caldar D Brash
on April 9, 2008
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Subject: Fwd: From the Regent of Cos - IC/OOC Edict -
Date: 4/9/2008 7:19:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Lucien Iteratus
To: Silver Espirit, Jewel Bane Ravyn
Tal to those of Cos (IC and OOC),
We have an issue that needs dealing with. Recently a group on Cos has been brought to my attention. It is a group that is playing out of Jad, dealing mostly in a room called "Batavian House Cos." This group consists of the following players: The Artist Sven, Asia Chardonnay, Oo CaIico oO, Kahirisma, Kajirus Damos, Jaded Jira, Chosen Kajirus, Marius of C0S, and Vedric of Thentis. Two years ago, this group started playing on Cos. Janas went to their room to in an attempt to find out who the new group was that was playing on Cos. The SN Kajirus Damos, bolted him and Wesley Black from the room.
After speaking with the group, Janas chose to put them on ignore.
Now.... about a month ago, Lorelei's slave Calico took up with this group to rp out a SL of a "shipwreck." She had been telling Lorelei that she would be coming back to Temos, and had told both of us that the group would be willing to RP with us. To this point, the players of that group had not left "Batavian House Cos."
Last night, the group was in a public room of Jad. "Gor Port of Jad Cos" Zakari and I went to the room to see what was going on. I'm attaching the log of the room at the end of this notice. The SN "The Artist Sven" after we had been rping in the room for near five minutes, notified us that they play "Turn Based ABC" rp, which I, for one, had never heard of. He posted his OOC about the same time that I and Zak mun posted our actions to the room, and he bolted both of us, before anyone could ask any questions. I am attaching Zak's emails also where Zak asked him why we were bolted, and Sven ripped him a new one.
Now I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I contacted Asia and offered to bring their group into Temos as an act of good will and keep us from having to deal with Cos 1 and Cos 2. I asked her, if they decided not to join the group, if they would move to another island or even move their "Cos" rooms to another "Interest" in the spirit of keeping Cos from turning into another Port Kar with it's 3 or 4 "parallel universes." At first I thought she was open to the idea, then today, she starts nitpicking me about Janas, Calico and telling me I need to go to Marius of C0S and ask him if he'll bring "his" group to join the rest of "recognized Cos." At that point, I realized that this band of rabble has no desire to be anything but elitists, and would never be an integral, productive, or beneficial part of Cos as a whole.
So, with all this being said, this entire group is being placed on Island Wide Ignore. Any room these people are in is not a recognized Cos room. This group needs to be listed on the Cos website as ignored, as well as the Selnar Site, Telnus and Temos sites, so our guests won't think, when they get bolted from this group's rooms, that it is "recognized Cos" that is doing it. We don't need to be painted with their elitist brush. We have prided ourselves on being welcoming to all, given they don't start crap.
Rala and Reina, I am charging the two of you with making the necessary updates to Selnar's and the Island's websites to protect our citizens and guests from this inexcusable kind of treatment.
Any questions, let me know,
Lucien Iteratus
Regent of Cos
Administrator of Temos
Master of Sable Tarn Estate
RRaMC
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Subject: OOC for the chronicle, please
Date: 4/9/2008 8:11:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Eirwen Derryth
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
There are two subjects, actually, that I would like to address. Neither I, the mun, nor my chars are any longer associated with the mun/chars of Slaver Kyrios. Most know that at one time, where you found one of us, you found the other. But, people do part ways. The character of Kyrios is dead and it is legal, despite what he has told others who have not heard the entire situation, and so he was told to ignore the death. He has blamed the downfall of Kyrios on another mun in the Gorean forums and has since taken on this need for a childish vendetta against that mun by claiming him to be the one crossing. Kyrios' fall was, in fact, his own doing, for he was arrested in the city of Bazi upon several charges. His mun, who helped to write the laws of Bazi, knew what would happen should he try to mun consent, and so he did... He not only went ooc in a room and then sought to mun-consent out of the holding cells, which he KNEW would get him killed, but he went into IMs threatening other muns. And now he has brought Kyrios back, playing the sob story that people are out to get him.
Now for the second disturbing problem. No one likes a plagarist and yet there is now someone role playing Kyrios' slave kurella. Now that isn't so much the problem, as I, whom have played kurella for a long time, wouldn't begrudge him finding another to do so. However... The mun of the new kurella shouldn't be copying my profile words (the stats are one thing, but the actual description is another entirely) for her own. She should be creating her own version of kurella. Of the two profiles kyrioskurella (her's) and kakureiiaka (mine) there is only one difference in the wording, and that is the skin color. Everything else has been completely taken from my own thoughts when I played the char at Kyrios-mun's request. Sad, I think, when someone has no sense of creativity and must copy from someone else. Most know my profiles simply by my wording and the way that I create my chars. I'd really appreciate NOT being associated with Kyrios-mun any longer.
Eirwen-mun
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Subject: Port Kar's crossing problem with ONE sour mun
Date: 4/6/2008 1:48:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Cyrus Kravich
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Port Kar is a no mun consent city. It is also a no crossing to overstack advantage city. I like that. I like genuine RP based on risk and skill of wit to gain what you want on one char, otherwise where's the risk? I have a 4 year SL that won't be destroyed because some girl got pissed a man of PK dissolved the claiming with her. Eric is dead, because he mated this player and the player writing for his mate decided to pull her Ubar out of her ass and kill him. That is the worse form of crossing.
Port Kar will not be ruined nor will it gain a rep as a city of bad RPers because of one RPer.
To the mun I'm speaking of I want to say this . Your days of mating Karians and yes I was one, then killing them with your Ubar char and attempting to rally cities to fight against PK are over. I am going to ignore you and your quickly built attack groups because it's pointless to attempt any sort of reasonable or fair gaming with you. All 4 of your PK chars are working towards the same end. Your Ubar that appears and disappears in the blink of an eye on our border. Ignored as well.
I welcome a good war SL. I will not play with crossers. Nor will I see a very good RP group ripped over your bad gaming. AND most notably because you were kicked out of the city and put on ignore for the obvious crossing over a year ago.
We in Port Kar welcome intrigue and risk, we do NOT welcome folks who want to cheat and multi play to their own selfish advantage. Do NOT come to Port Kar if you cheat. We're old muns, smart muns and we hold sacred the essence of the game which is ONE sn per SL.
Anyone with questions feel free to email me.
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Subject: Remember
Date: 4/4/2008 11:18:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Lady Drianae
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
To those of Gor.
I hearby announce that my Character is no longer related to Sandros the Slaver in any way , shape or form. I will ignore any rp that I consider derived from my dissolvement of that relationship meaning death or enslavement. Nor will I have Drianae do anything disrespectful to the character that will warrant that. I completely regret having to do this. You know, some have said there is a "poodle" woman around. To me it seems as if there is a whole kennel of them. I played with a mun who passed in real life. We were at odds, our characters, and He left. One day I came online and He was gone. Reflect upon how You treat other muns for there is nothing more painful or terrible that having someone go to their grave with your bite marks on them.
Thank You and happy gaming
Lady Drianae mun
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Subject: Re: Mun of Kane Orchis
(Character, Administrator of Turia, 3rd Chair RRaMC)
To All of Gor,
I received word today from the mother of the mun of Kane Orchis that he was severely injured
in a skiing accident a few weeks ago. He is still in the hospital, and expected to return home soon.
His recovery will however, take some time. Say a prayer for this dear man, and hope he returns
to us soon.
Thank you,
Jewel mun
4/4/08
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Subject: Re: The Watch Sleen Report RETRACTION NEEDED
Date: 4/3/2008 12:19:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Lucien Iteratus
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
First of all. I did NOT file charges against Khil. Drac and Deimos came to me wanting to know what happened on InB when Lucien was Deputy Administrator there. I, to this date, don't know who 'brought the charges' against Khil because Drac won't tell me. Hell, Drac wouldn't even tell me when Khil's trial was, I had to get that from Khil himself.
This needs to be corrected in your paper, as I didn't have crap to do with it. Lucien left InB and went to Cos, and that was that. IC, Lucien and Khil parted on good terms. The stuff I did send to the council got twisted in so many different directions that it didn't resemble anything that happened to start with. That wasn't my doing. They took what they ASKED me to send and made charges of THEIR OWN, and at the RRaMC "trial" of Khil, Lucien stood shoulder to shoulder with him and defended him. I'm just as pissed about having my name drug through the mud as I am about the Caste stripping Khil of his registry.
Why hasn't anyone come to me about this before writing assumptions and making me look bad? To reiterate. I DID NOT BRING CHARGES AGAINST KHIL, NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.
Omar Omase was lying. He was going back and forth between me and Khil trying to stir up crap, and when it came out that I took Khil's side with the council, he started his sh*t on Cos. He is the most duplicitious person I have ever encountered. I didn't know about the trouble he'd caused on InB until people started IMing me about it about a week and a half ago.
As it stands now, he started his crap IC and then went OOC in one of our rooms, got his ass put on ignore with all of Cos. So I'm sure you'll hear what an SOB I am for sure now.
Now, I am requesting that you print a retraction for your printing that I was the one who started the crap with Khil and the RRaMC as well as the veiled accusation that I have been knowingly helping Omar continue his BS.
Lucien / mun of Lucien
---------------------------- In Response --------------------------------
Subj: Re: The Watch Sleen Report RETRACTION NEEDED
Sent: 4/3/2008 9:53:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Khilintyme
To: Lucien Iteratus, The Watch Sleen
I am in full agreeance with Lucien here. ( yes agreeance is a word, even though the stupid on-line dictionary doesn't think so). When this was all first brought to my attention. The night the decree that I was kicked out of the caste went out. I asked for proof, I asked for what was said, and the very first thing that I was shown, was Lucien's testimony against Khil. This was of course taken by Deimos. Lucien spoke honestly and with all truth and in the end, his words were twisted.
Omar Omase filed the charges against Khil, Omar Omase, who was not even a member of the caste, is a low member of the caste he is in, and who was at one point, a citizen of Ivory and Bone, sworn in by myself.
Omar attempted a coupe, he was shot down by the people of the island and then was banished from the island. Basically, this was all crap. And the fact that Drac even entertained it, even accepted the charges, shows how easily the character can be manipulated.
Lucien and Khil have had some arguments, and have had some disagreements through-out the months. But when it comes right down to it, there is mutual respect and friendship. Which completely caught Drac off guard at Khil's trial, when Lucien stood shoulder to shoulder with Khil and spoke against the charges.
It is true that Drac tried to base the charges off of what Lucien told them. They, being Deimos and Drac, attempted to use Lucien's words as a launching pad for their attack. In the end, Lucien stepped up and set the record straight and all heard his words as they were meant to be, not as they had been twisted to sound.
Please let the world know that Lucien words were used in this and he was not the one who filed the charges. Lucien was so blindsided by all of this he had no idea what they were doing until he received the decree just like the rest of us.
Thanks for all you have done and helping to expose this for what it was. Thank you watch sleen for keeping your eye on Gor and ferreting out the trouble makers and letting the world know about them.
Best Regards,
Mun of Khil.
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Subject: My Two Coppers on Child Characters
Date: 3/30/2008 4:10:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Nash Vatuga
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
In response to Kory Rakin's statement that most cities frown upon and or forbid child characters, let's address why that may be so. Most people cannot play a child. Most people cannot grasp the concept that children are intelligent beings who, though lacking in maturity, are often more intelligent than many adults. Most people cannot grasp the concept that a child is not going to be allowed to wander city to city, as if there were no family unit responsible for said child.
An adult playing a child character is no more sick than an adult playing a tarnsman or a scribe. The age of the character has no bearing on the viability of the character. It is the skill in which the character is played, which has bearing on the viability of the character.
As one whose character has children who are played, I can honestly say, it can round out a story line to have characters that are growing and learning rather than just presuming character development as it should happen. When you have players who can accurately portray a child character, it can be very rewarding to the story line.
The city Lydius was mentioned in Scott's article due to the web site they put out with false information, which has had the effect of painting ALL players who play children in a bad light.
Anyone who would say it is the fault of the player, playing a child character that other players cannot grasp the concept that OOC attacks are and always will be bad form is obviously one of those players who would sling such OOC attacks in the first place.
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Subject: Rules of AOL ANGor
Date: 3/29/2008 12:26:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Sintean x Rage
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Approaches many of the issues discussed. I am not preaching the Forum, just another point of view.
Click here: ANGor
Written by Ubar Luther
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Subject: Merrick Varesh's kiddie time
Date: 3/29/2008 6:15:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Kory Rakin
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Merrick mun, if you are so hell bent on playing "kiddies" then do so. Most cities I have Rp'd in frown upon or forbid "kiddie" Rp. Why any adult feels the need to Rp a kid is in itself rather sick. Instead of bashing cities that reject your kiddie crap and refuse to Rp with your "kiddie" chars, take a look at yourself. An OOC posting on a website has nothing to do with why people do not want to Rp with kid chars.
I called AOL and was told the same thing; it is an adult gaming forum for adults over 18. AOL is well aware of Gor; AOL does not close down an account unless the "kiddie" Rp is sexual and in an open room, and someone would have to complain and document it. Since you say most leave a room when you enter it, maybe you should stop blaming others and take a good look at yourself!
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Subject: A few mun comments on sustaining Injuries when fighting
Date: 3/21/2008 12:07:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Rakav The Outlaw
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
A few mun comments on sustaining Injuries when fighting.
Firstly on a side note ...... My sincerest thanks and congratulations to the organizers and proctors of the Dorrin Spidlar Memorial Tournament for a well run event that did indeed honor the names of those that have left us. Despite having to juggle rooms a couple of times to accommodate the amazing number of attendees, it ran smoothly with imaginative and mature role play all round. Depending on your own personal beliefs I am sure it would have raised more than a few smiles from “beyond”.
Now back to my peeve. Something I noticed during the Tournament but seems to be a common occurrence everywhere these days. And this is the lack of role play related to injuries sustained.
Personally I feel that, in “real life”, any man fighting hard would be in a fairly battered and bruised state. Even given expert physician care, bruises and broken bones do not heal overnight, and would be aggravated by subsequent beatings.
I have seen men take multiple strong blows to the same areas and not even react in the slightest. Men who would have sustained severe bruising and fractures yet all but skipped from the sands as if they had simply taken a nice walk in the park.
Now I am fully aware that, for the Tournament, role playing the usual healing times is not practical and we would have lost a few combatants due to inability to continue. So for something like this important event even I forgo the usual constraints I place on my character when he gets his ass kicked.
But to not acknowledge injury in any shape or form ? To continue without any reaction at all to a four point hit with a staff or wooden sword to the face or ribs ? To sustain a total of 10 plus points of damage to the same part of the body over a couple of days and not even limp or groan ? Even when putting aside “realism” to cater for such an event this is pushing past the limits of believability.
I would like to remember (and maybe bring back ? ) the “good old days” where :-
You had to build your strength back up over a number of days (Gain 4 HP for seeing a physician then an additional 2HP per day)
Any fight you engaged it started from your current HP and not automatically back to 20 each time.
Show your current HP on your profile
Had to role play out the fact your character was injured.
Your dice were reduced by 1 point once you dropped to 10HP and by another point once you dropped below 5HP to reflect the effect of injuries on performance.
So although I appreciate and understand the suspension of the norm to cater for such worthy events as this tournament, I also put out a call to those that play the men of Gor. On a day to day basis start acknowledging the fact they are not invincible gods. They are flesh and blood than can be cut and bruised, can bleed and be broken. Continue to fight for what they believe in but also acknowledge that such actions carry the consequence of injury and please start to role play these out.
If you are in a fight and taken down to 5HP then play it as so, not out and about within the hour bashing more skulls with ease. If you sustain a four point sword hit then you are in pain and losing blood, it is not a "scratch". Take a moment to think how you the mun would be after taking each hit and apply it to role play. Would you be downing paga and leaping into furs with a woman after having your body hacked apart ? This may be a fantasy role play area but I find it is so much more enhanced when "realsim" is applied
And so endeth todays sermon :: winks ::
Regards
Mike
The Mun behind Rakav
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Subject: Legendary Warriors Memorial Tournament - a comment
Date: 3/21/2008 1:22:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Lady Drianae
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
I would like publically thank the mun of Isabeau Saintus for all the time she spent in putting together the tournament honoring those that have passed and their characters. It was such a pleasure to participate and remember. It was a time when all got together in what once was the spirit of this gaming realm. I will never forget it, nor will Drianae. Kreall mun would have loved it or should I say He did for the Man would have clawed his way past the gates of heaven even to get there. To the muns of the warriors that particpated I thank You as well. And to the Free women and slaves that were there I thank you as well. Isa, good job and well done. I wont forget and I know none others will too. Thank you Isa mun. Well done.
The mun of Lady Drianae
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Subject: Clone and Cos wide Ignore.
Date: 3/21/2008 4:33:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Janas DeWitt
To all players of Gor,
I the mun of Janas DeWitt have recently been told by a few different people that there is a clone of Janas walking Gor. The screen name is Janas DeWitt X. It is not my char and no way is it related to my char. I have also learned who the mun is and she has in the past made a screen name with the DeWitt name. That screen name was Janella DeWitt, one of the children born With his ex mate Halima Abasi. She chose to make the char of a child and rp'ed her grown. This mun has in the past sent flame mail out against my Char, and me as mun. She also thinks I do not know her screen names but there are those who know the past history with this mun who keep me well informed. I have her blocked on all screen names that come my way that belong to her. I refuse to rp with her and from today all her screen names will be put on Cos wide Ignore. This mun is dangerous to those she chooses to hate for her childish reasons. Beware of her and what she does.
Janas mun
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Subject: In Response to Tyler Dracen Regarding Merrick Varesh's Post
Date: 3/16/2008 4:01:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: AuroraST x
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
Okay, first let me say....there are many reasons people may not want to role-play with a child character in AOL Gor. One obvious one is that some of them are very needy and whiny or bratty and annoying. That alone is enough. But also, many RPers are parents and come online for a break from children. I don't think anybody is saying that anyone must play with munned child characters in Gor if they don't want to.
But to continue to propogate the misinformation that it is TOSable, illegal, or immoral to ROLE-PLAY a child in an AOL Gor chatroom, an adult forum based on adult themes, is completely unfair. I know some of you may even believe it. But it is absolutely false. I have heard that some say they have asked AOL. Well, you know what? I have been told by an AOL person that there are no conference rooms on AOL too, and I have been in several of them and even found a listing of them. I have found that, often, I know much much more than the regular AOL customer service or tech people I have spoken to on the phone. The CAT team (Community Action Team), though, is pretty knowledgeable, and that is who *I* spoke to on this matter. Now, the woman I spoke with had not heard of AOL Gor, so she spoke to six other people on the CAT team before she found someone who knew about Gorean role-play. The six of them looked at the laws regarding internet chatrooms and the TOS rules regarding this matter. She said they could see NO reason whatsoever that an adult cannot play a child in an adult forum game or that they would hamper any criminal investigations. She said the problem would come in if someone portrays themselves as a child to real children in general or children's chatrooms or websites for the purpose of luring them into some compromising or illicit behavior. That is consistent with the law and is consistent with common sense. To be convicted of a crime like this, there has to be intent to do cause the harm done. Now, if you speak with the mun of a character and find out that mun is a minor and still choose to play out sexual scenes with that minor, you may have a problem. There is knowledge and there is possibly intent. But if you find out a mun is a minor and you role-play with them nonsexually...or even if you play out a sexual scene with a char who is 16 but the mun is 35....where is the crime or the intent to cause harm? C'mon, use your heads.
What we are doing in AOL Gor, essentially, is writing interactive fiction. The only difference between what we do and what an author of a book does is that we only write our own part of the story and depend on other muns to write their part, which makes up the whole of the story. I abhor any sort of child endangerment or abuse (mun works in the area of child welfare in fact), but in fiction...for example, let's take the Harry Potter books....when the author writes that Harry's aunt and uncle keep him locked in a closet, should she be arrested for writing that? Should an actor in a movie be arrested for playing out child abuse that is in the script? Should the author of the screen-play be arrested for writing it? This is really no different. We are writing a story. The ONLY difference is that others can join in. And nobody is holding them by knife-point or gun-point to play it out. It is consensual and it is a story, written with who we expect and believe to be other adults. We are not responsible for minors lying to say they are adults whose parents allow them in adult chatrooms, any more than a porn site is responsible if they use the verification system and a minor uses Mom or Dad's credit card to fake that they are old enough and view pornography. We are only responsible if we know it.
From Tyler Dracen's post: "Recently a woman pretending to be a teenage male, was chatting with a teenage girl who ultimately committed suicide over their Internet relationship. The woman has been arrested for second degree murder and is facing trial. Legislation is now pending to make impersonating a child on line as a federal offense. It matters not what forum or content that takes." Completely untrue and it has nothing whatsoever to do with a role-play forum. Let's see the proof of that. This is what I found, in fact:
Check out ABC news (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3946124&page=1). "Though Banas considered filing charges for harassment, stalking or endangering the welfare of a child, he said it appeared no laws had been broken. Since the purpose of the fake MySpace page was to find out what Megan was saying about Drew's daughter, Banas could not charge Drew with harassment or stalking, which require proof that the messages were sent with the purpose of frightening, disturbing or harassing." So you see they could not even file charges against her because of lack of evidence of the intent to cause that kind of harm to the child. Even the new laws they passed would not have helped them to prosecute the woman. They would still have to prove she intended to cause the harm. I am not defending her in any way. What she did was horrible and I'm glad the town ostracized her. But the fact is they could not charge her, even though the family pushed for that. And, again, that was not in a role-play forum, where everyone who brings a character knows it is adult-forum role-play.
And, if I find out my police department is trolling role-play rooms looking for crime, I will say right now that I will scream about wasting my tax dollars. I would say that is an excuse to goof off and get paid for it since they will not find crime or intent to commit crime there. And this is what I actually found about tracking real cyber crime, like plotting murders or rapes with others online, with the intent to carry them out in real life: "David Musgrove, supervisory special agent of the FBI's cybercrime unit, said the bureau is monitoring the uptick in people using the Net to plot real world crimes, but that agents could not just sit and wait in suspicious chat rooms. 'We're in touch with current trends … and we know the sorts of forums that are popular for the online behaviors that are precursors to violent acts,' Musgrove said. 'However, we can't just troll the Net. We need probable cause.' " So more misinformation being sent out on this issue by someone at least purporting to be in law enforcement.
Some of us do like to play family SLs in Gor. I have played my character since she was two years old. Why? Because I loved her family and SL. Because I role-played her mother and wanted to continue the SL into another generation. Because I wanted to build her SL for her lifetime. And the SL was greatly enriched by that. Aurora has people that have known her from childhood on. They watched her grow and develop and acted as mentors to her. Talk about a richness and consistency of a story...she has a Gorean lifetime of a story already, and she is in her early 20s. Nobody can take that from me. And my intent was never to play anything illegal or immoral, nor was it to disrupt or cause problems for anybody. You may not choose to play a child. You may not choose to play with RPed children. Again, that IS absolutely your choice. But do not try to pretend it is illegal in order to try to stop others from exercising their own right to play the character they choose to play. It is not.
Please stop the misinformation on this issue.
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Greetings to all the good Muns of Gor,
Most of you understand my take on the OOC Section of the Chronicle, so the following lecture and finger shaking, and rant, is basically for those who do not.
This is not the Outlaw Times, the Watch Sleen Report, or other papers who seem to confuse what is Out of Character (OOC) and what is In Character (IC). Out of Character is your MUN, and anything here in the real world. People have asked me about the Watch Sleen report, my opinion is, people like that, only further push Gor into the dark void of mun bullshit, harassment, lies, uncreative and self serving attitudes. So my opinion is, fuck that, have fun, don't let people like that ruin your time here, or what you do, they are not worth the paper to wipe your ass with. There are a few ass holes in Gor (with multiple screen names to stir the shit), so just remind yourself, you do not have to beat to their drum. I have three words I suggest you use, I do when they are jerks, and that is, GET A LIFE! If someone has to post on a web site or send out an email about how bad you are ... well.. it reflects more on them as a nut case, than it does you. Not that there is not a little bit of nut in all of us. Are they improving Gor for everyone, or just using their tools to their own degrading purposes to hurt someone else? 9 out of 10 times, it's just to be a dumb ass.
Therefore, the Out of Character, the OOC Section of the Chronicle is strictly for MUN information only, for you.
Unlike the Outlaw Times and the Watch Sleen Report, I do not add biased, shaded, often untrue remarks of my own to what is posted, it comes from what people have sent me, and has been reviewed. Where at times I do give Silver credit for his posts, I have often been a victim of his one sided, close minded opinions of what the world should look like according to Silver. However, remember, Silver is entitled to his opinion, and it is his right to voice it. If you disagree with Silver, that is fine too, but show maturity and class, and debate with him on a respectful level -that is actually true with debating with anyone - be mature, be adult, even if the other person is not.
My goal here is to provide a place where you can share your concerns, debate issues, provide information etc etc. It's not to slash and dice other people. Do we as adults, really need to do that or act that way? Well to me No. Except on that rare occasion where we have finally had enough of their stupid ass crap and whining. So to the two faced, whining, manipulating, uncreative, backstabbing, bitches of Gor .. and yes, you know who you are, go out and have a drink on St Patty's day, maybe the Leprechaun Bus will run you over and you'll wise up.
Good People, it is okay to disagree, it is okay to have your own opinion. It is okay to voice your opinion and debate, rationally, with class and tact. It is okay to change your mind, to have friends other friends don't like... it's okay to have more than one screen name, cuz guess what, it's nobodies business anyway, and it's your AOL Account(s). Just don't be a fricking ass with you dozen or so SNs, don't cross, don't harass others. I have one account and maybe one SN I actually do get to Role Play on rare occasion, but that is MY CHOICE.. it does not mean it has to be yours.
Another little vent I have - don't beat up on people, or yourself for making a mistake or being wrong. We are all human, we all make mistakes, nobody is immune to it. Heaven knows I have made enough mistakes in my time. We are not God, we are not the Priest Kings. Someone tries it with you, refer to those three little words .. GET A LIFE.
And lastly.. my mun is my mun .. and my world does NOT revolve around you or Gor. Gor is a pass time when I have some free time and in the mood to role play. I am not on your schedule when things should be done or posted. For anyone who knows me, I am a patient person, but when you push to far, I am going to tare into you.. just the New Yorker in me I guess. With respect, I do not make those kind of demands on others.
And yes, I was going to stop doing the chronicle, due to my mun life getting so busy now, but to many people have my phone number. So my decision, Gor will be done as I have time to do it.. So you may or may not get the chronicle every Saturday by 10 am.. it may be later, it may be Sunday, it may be Monday.. but it will go out regular most times, AFTER EVERYTHING IN MY MUN LIFE is taken care of... first... I love many of you guys, your awesome, you rock, I cannot praise many, many, many of you enough, but my mun life will always come first. I am not Gor, I have two jobs, a family, many friends, and lots of things that I do in real life. Gor is a pass time .. it should never consume your life, it's fantasy.
So to all, carry on, and have fun gaming.
Thanks!! Jewel mun
3/14/08
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Subject: Regarding the Se'Var Faire
Date: 3/7/2008 4:00:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Lukas Falconaire
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
I am writing to clear up a couple of things. I did not submit the email I wrote on 1/27/08 to the Chronicle for publication. I "replied to all" on an email I received, and it ended up being published. I am saying this not because I am ashamed in the least about what I said, because I still stand behind everything. HOWEVER, if I had chosen to submit something to an OOC Gor-wide publication about the warrior's tournaments or the Faire in general, I would have sent it after the Faire, and I would have commended Katie Brant, Aria Conners, the Builders, and others for their commitment and for stepping up, remaining positive, and making the best of a bad situation. I'm sure there were many many others who had to take up others' slack, and I'm sorry I am not naming them by name, but I also commend them.
Shame on anybody that withdrew their events or dumped them on someone else at the last minute for petty mun reasons or revenge. Having to withdraw for mun personal reasons is one thing and can happen. Mun life ALWAYS comes first. But, if you committed to an event and then withdrew it or dumped it because you were mad at one or two people, you really should hang your head in shame and reconsider ever hosting an event again. You didn't just stick it to one person or even embarrass them. You stuck it to everyone who was enjoying the faires, and you only made yourself look bad and the ones who stepped up look good. I am a mun who honors ALL my commitments unless I am completely unable to. The fact that it is an online commitment does not excuse me from that. The people behind the SNs are still real, living, breathing, people that have to rely on your commitment and dedicate their own time, and your word should still be honored. I will say I did not host, sponsor, or proctor any events. I did make an offer to proctor but was not taken up on the offer. I did not sponsor/host an event because I could not commit since I was registered in both warrior's tournaments, and I could not have known for certain if I could have been there. I will not commit and then withdraw without a very good mun reason, which would probably have to be an emergency.
I did end up having quite a bit of fun at the Faire, but it was only after I was eliminated from the RSCW tournament. I still feel the events could have been spread out more. And I still don't know exactly what happened with Drac's tournament, and it's over and done with now. But I will say this much: *I* knew what the dates were for the tournaments at least a week beforehand, when I checked the website and registered. I have no idea if Drac-mun was "screwed over" or whatever on the dates, but I do know that he should have noticed the dates at least when *I* saw them. I also know that I never received the cancellation of that tournament firsthand. I received it only after I inquired what was going on in an IM to another mun, who sent me the Drac email. I was registered. I would think I should have been notified of the cancellation firsthand. And the website was not updated to say it was cancelled either.
I suppose saying the faires were "poorly run" was not completely accurate. But all those that refute that also list all the problems with the faire. That gives the appearance of "poorly run." I did not know at that time that some pulled their events (other than Drac) or that some just dumped them. All I knew was that there ended up being no events for me or mine to participate in except Builder's events, until Friday night (couldn't get into the deck-fighting room as it was full). We RPed going to the faire on Tuesday. That is three days with almost nothing, then three days with conflicts with the tournament. The last few days were great, and we had a good time. No thanks to those who dumped their events, and kudos to those who did step up and run them anyway.
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Subject: Response to the Outlaw Times 804th Edition, regarding the Kurii
Date: 3/5/2008 12:21:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: SteeIWorIdsMyst
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn, Torrin Graves, TheeAboveRings, Silver Espirit
Hello Fellow Role Players,
Many of you have asked for my response to the latest Silver tirade concerning the Kurii, as it appeared in the 804th Edition of the Outlaw Times. Therefore, the following is addressed to all of you out there who play AOL Gor. I apologize for the length and detail, ahead of time.
Please regard the link, this was entirely to long to post in the chronicle, but it was a good debate regarding Kurri and Silvers opinion. - thank you, Jewel
Response to the Outlaw Times 804th Edition, regarding the Kurii
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Subject: In response to Merrick Varesh
Date: 3/2/2008 7:21:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Tyler Dracen
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
In response to Merrick Varesh's post:
AOLGor is an adult forum although children do play here as they do in all Internet forums. AOL does not condone adults role-playing children, although they do not actively police their chat rooms, however Law enforcement does. The statement from the website you quoted is accurate.
AOL STATED REASONS FOR THIS ACTION:
"It interferes with current investigations of pedophiles and online predators, it is a form of children exposure and child pornography even if it is not sexual in nature it is considered exposing of a child for entertainment or gratification purposes infringes upon children's rights."
The majority of Internet forums quote similar statements.
Your knowledge of the law is misinformed and inaccurate.
Law enforcement specifically patrols chat rooms on the Internet, this includes all forums, it is not exclusive solely to AOL. All chat rooms are randomly monitored, including role-play rooms.
It is not illegal to role-play a child however by doing so you leave yourself open for investigation. It matters not if the role-play is of a sexual nature, the mere fact you are impersonating a child is enough to be investigated. Not all who role-play children or pretend to be a child are investigated but it leaves you open for observation and scrutiny of your activity.
Recently a woman pretending to be a teenage male, was chatting with a teenage girl who ultimately committed suicide over their Internet relationship. The woman has been arrested for second degree murder and is facing trial.
Legislation is now pending to make impersonating a child on line as a federal offense. It matters not what forum or content that takes.
So if you wonder why some refuse to role-play with your child character now you may understand why. It is no surprise why most with any sense would avoid your child char like the plague.
Mun of Tyler
Mun in Law Enforcement
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Subject: DM Proctoring
Date: 2/25/2008 6:50:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Cherish Dark
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
To whom it may concern,
As proctor of the DM between Stone H Quebach and his brothers, it is necessary for me to publicly correct and set right the last hit that was taken. With 1 hit pt. left, the last action that was posted was a simple toss to Stone, not a direct hit as I had scored it to be.
ValDanBarracuda: ::Hearing Jackson he tosses him to the side as no major areas would be harmed.::
OnlineHost: ValDanBarracuda rolled 2 23-sided dice: 15 13
JacksonXQuebach: ::He looks to Cuda:: Get him in the compound
Cherish Dark: Val 20/20 Cuda 18/20 Stone 0/20 Stone Dead
MurdachBarracuda: Yes, Sir.
JacksonXQuebach: {No Stone not dead}
Therefore Stone H Quebach was still alive at the end of the match, and the score should have read 1/20 for Stone.
This situation is thereby declared a proctoring error and now corrected.
Signed: Cherish Dark
Mun Date: 2/24/08
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Subject: In response to What has Gor Come to
Date: 2/19/2008 6:17:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Samiyah Ra
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn
"Now, groups. Oh yes, I have witnessed groups from each city, or so it seems. We have the Taharians, lead by one, I will give no names, and well, I laugh at them. Their greeting is not Arabic but Islamic/Jewish. I have also had a few of those in the group, should another enter the room, send me IMs claiming the mun of that player or this, was a piece of tarn dung. They would destroy storylines, etc" Direct quote from the letter What has Gor come to by MunofTalarieKell
As I am a citizen of the Tahari, and my char is born and raised in the home stone, my only comment to this, as I feel there needs to be a reply, is that, this is Gor, where the origins of a greeting to offset the cultural differences is left open to do as the leader so wishes. What its foundation here on Earth is has no weight. The Tahari was not written in such detail as many other larger cities, there for more freedom is allowed here. But to down a city for "cultural ways" is rather a petty reason, and one that falls as well to what provoked you to write this letter. Your comment is how Gor dies. For every person there is, there is a person like you complaining of the governmental structural system and the insignificant allowances of freedom of play. Which as well, is how the Tahari runs, on a system, not one person, so that claim is just your belief, and not fact. Which again, is another thing that destroys Gor, people much like you, making assumptions, and complaining, when you are not in the Caste of Council, and are told to rp by the laws of the city.
Free women, what they rp in their private time is their business unless someone walks in on them, it is then only hear say. If the man who couched her didn't collar her, dont hate. Slaves, yes, now there is a real issue. So many want to be the love slave and allow no others around their Master, that they will go to such extremes of going OOC, to make their claims of betrayal. If you choose to play a slave, you have no say on what an owner does. Not a good slave.
What kills Gor rp, is so much OOC bs. Inability to detach oneself from their mun beliefs, to play a race that holds values of unfairness. You want Gor to get better, get out of the IM boxes and emails with the mun bashing and bs and play.
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Subject: Article for Papers "Mad, Mad Gorld..."
Date: 2/10/2008 9:42:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Merrick Varesh
To: Jewel Bane Ravyn, AuroraST x
When the children cry...
Role play is not real life, there is no way it can be. When a person is, no matter how deeply or how well embodied within a role of a character, they are still... just that writer behind the character. So this is an article about respect of writers for what they do, and that they enhance role play, not because of who they are, not because of why they do what they do, but just... that they do it well and with good intention. They write well and contribute to stories of many other characters within their baseline story content.
There is no simple answer to "Fix" the many problems on Gor right now, they are the same the problems that have run rampant these past eight years or so, since I wrote an article entitled "First Aid for Gor" now long buried and forgotten, it was an effort to inject some medicine into the sickly Gor we played back then. Now, I have chosen to discuss the problems plaguing those muns that have chosen to layer in and provide more family elements and bring life to children on Gor, those next generations of Goreans and players alike, who want to weave a true history into the story fabric, rather then step into a grown character and "make it all up as they go". To say all Gorean children were never seen nor heard from is untrue. They are mentioned in the books in market places and public areas, but remembering the books are ALL based largely in the direction of the main characters struggles with collars, slavery and sex, naturally they were never in the foreground pages.
The Pros...
And so it is now, well played children are an enhancement and a way to play out an actual life to your character giving that character a much richer taste of actually played history, rarely are they the *main Character*. Actually playing a child time to time and living within the layers embedded down with good story telling, greatly written characters and those events that help us to role play struggles to over come, all build a larger base which all great characters can live off of for years. Playing a child character off and on over the years , those child characters are now adults and they are smoothly played because most of their childhood was actually role played out. That eliminates for me, any guesswork as to the who, what, where, why and whens and simply allows me to just play above a line. And it is with that same formula, I play a child character now. He did not come without difficulty, and this time around, there have been frustrations like never before.
The Cons...
I am the first one to say, there are some around who play children very poorly, they have nine year olds speaking like poorly educated two year olds. They have children who magically travel alone from city to city with no basis of play other then npc guards who allow them free rein. Folks, this is not a sign of all children on Gor, these are the same *writers* who also play really bad adults on Gor. You've seen them, they loop their stories and dialogue, when they enter a room, everyone just groans. This is not all writers of Children, it is a few who make up ten characters and play them horrifically, so horrifically that when I play a child well... I suppose *I* then receive all the flack from other players over something, someone else did? Does this sound fair or reasonable? People who are not of the class of writer that actually understands what "layering in a storyline" even is, will no doubt be puzzled and continue to heap frustration upon better players and better writers. People who believe everything they read, people who don't even see any role play by the child character and immediately go into *thought wars*, giving their ooc views on child abuse and how "sick" I am to play a child on Gor, and how they try to stamp a staatement on it by leaving the room when my character enters in. Excuse me? Wow.
At first I wondered and thought, why is this happening? I don't play any sexual elements into my play ever... So, where is this sudden surge of "hatred" for children being portrayed properly on Gor coming from exactly? At least part of the answer came from a surprisingly strange place. The following misinformation in red, was taken from the OOC section of the famed and well visited Lydius site and is one of the reasons why people choose to attack role players in the infectious *thought wars* currently destroying the fabric of my personal role play here on Gor and that of other good writers who establish previous history on an adult character by playing it from children up, and they do it without the intent of child abuse in any form.
On one website... and misinformation in red...
"Age: AOLGor is not a forum for minors. To participate in roleplay in the City of Lydius, a mun must be at least 18 years old. All chars must also be 18 years or older, there are no exceptions. According to AOL representatives, no mun under the age of 18 is to be roleplaying in Gor as this is an adult gaming forum, also no munned chars under the age of 18 either.
AOL STATED REASONS FOR THIS ACTION:
"It interferes with current investigations of pedophiles and online predators, it is a form of children exposure and child pornography even if it is not sexual in nature its is considered exposing of a child for entertainment or gratification purposes infringes upon children's rights." "
Okay, the good part is MOST of you read this and KNOW, it's not true. The disturbing part is, there are many who read it and believe it. Misinformation in any form... will corrupt. Even when people think they are "good" lies... They are just lies. Some well intentioned lie is and always will be just another lie. I am struggling to respect the views of this website to stand on a lie, no matter the intention. It portrays it as though this website content is some honorable stab at trying to prevent child abuse on Gor and in Role play by claiming AOL has official involvement in Gor or any other RPG and agrees with him. By standing my choice of playing a child character in an all adult forum up against investigations of child abuse is ridiculous and causes muns who cannot think for themselves? To attack me before I even play in *thought wars*. Why should I have to put up with this?
Fact? AOL doesn't even know about Gor nor do they care. They do not police RPG areas and half the time don't even know they exist, hence why we have continued to fall under "Member made rooms" The entire life of Gor. Fact? It is OUR job as muns to make sure we are not accepting minor muns to play on Gor. Yes, our job as responsible muns, not AOL. Fact? Playing a child character on Gor is NOT a crime. NOT A CRIME.... To even think this, is beyond hope for you as a mun, seriously.
Facts to know and remember... Law 101...
To commit a "crime"... You must have "criminal intent". Without that folks? There is no "criminal act". So that alone rules out entirely the very notion that my playing a child on Gor, playing a child character under age 18 in a forum built for mutual adult play only? Is how a crime against actual children? Let's think about that a long moment. The website claims that "playing an rpg'd child" somehow invades investigations of real time predators... with real time children? Huge sigh here at the idiocy in that alone... Now back to reality and the simple known facts... Investigations are targeted to what falls in that particular doc file. NO mass investigation of all aol online rpg characters is ever or will ever take place in any real "crime" anywhere. Not even on CSI folks. No investigation is ever performed wide spread anything, it maintains true line to the investigation found only in the trail of a case concerning a child case number and relevant facts to that file.
Fact? Scary part is there are too many people walking around claiming they have contacted AOL and AOL bans this and that, AOL says this and that... want the truth? Please folks... Call them yourself. Don't relay on my words, especially trents...Call. If you have concerns speak to aol directly or talk to the state police. They will first say... Gor? I don't know what that is and after you explain it, they don;t really want to know. Then they will tell you the facts if you ask them directly... FACT per state police of Maine and New Jersey: A criminal intent would be in disguising yourself , an adult into a skin of a child online with the INTENT to lure an ACTUAL CHILD, actual minor, under the actual age of 18 in sexual acts or child endangerment and here is the kicker... In real Life.
DUH. You say? Yeah, I know... DUH.
Well let's try to get the real word out there and stop the RPG generated *thought wars* against muns choosing to play a child character and layer in storylines and build characters the old fasioned way, through good solid role play from the ground up on Gor. If you are one of these muns that is walking around Gor ruining my play and other good writers play with your *thought wars* and OOC commentary about people playing roles of Gorean Children. I think you should ask yourself something... Why? Yeah. That's my point.
Mun of Sean the Urt.
Saying Thank You to our Servicemem an women.
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